Home / Podcasts / TOROcast – Episode 137 – Butthall

TOROcast – Episode 137 – Butthall

This weeks episode of the TOROcast we give Jeffery a call to see how he’s doing. And our main topics of discussion for the week are looting in operations, and discussing why people are leaving the game.

Download Link – [color=#333333][url=http://torocast.podbean.com/mf/web/w8ak3g/TOROcast-Episode137-Butthall.mp3]Download this episode (right click and save)[/url][/color]

Mini-Player –

About SammMoney

Hey there friends I am Samm 'Money' Carbo, owner of Twonk Hammer Entertainment, LLC. In March of 2009, along with a dearly missed friend I started a podcast some may know; The TOROcast based on Star Wars: The Old Republic, unfortunately that game was not a fit for me however I did not want to give up podcasting and reviewing games. Thus I started this site, and The Ban Hammer podcast. I am the proud father of currently one, work as a computer tech during the day, and a mail man on Saturday's as you can imagine my life is busy. Follow me on Twitter @SammMoney and of course follow us here @TwonkHammer.


  1. One of you isn't 50, and the rest are complaining that the Ops are too hard?  Are you kidding me?!?

    Boo hoo there are enrage timers.  We cleared everything except for Soa the first week we went into EV, and that's when the guns were bugged and were hard or nightmare level.  The second boss is EASY, we have one shot him at every level of both 8/16 man.  If you beat the first boss, the second boss should have been a face roll.  The 4th encounter is easy if you put the right people on the right NPCs.  8 mans are really a joke, and in some respects easier than many of the HM flashpoints.  You guys clearly need more skill. 

    There were SO many incorrect things that you guys stated about the game and ops it was said.  All you are doing is giving false information to anyone that listens to you.  You guys shouldn't be having a podcast on the game if you don't fully understand it.  It might have been great when no one was playing and no one knew, but now that you can play and get info…you should know what you are talking about before spouting it off to others.  By giving all this bad info you could discourage someone who was thinking of playing the game from actually buying it.

  2. "There were SO many incorrect things that you guys stated about the game and ops it was said."

    Care to provide examples or is this just a complaint for complaining's sake?

    Samm isn't 50. Tom wasn't complaining about Ops. Kyle wasn't there. So what you mean to say is "JJ is complaining about Ops difficulty" and if you had paid attention, I wasn't complaining about difficulty, I was complaining how lazy and dumb an Enrage timer is, which I'm more than welcome to my opinion on the matter and brought it up to create dialog about it.

    EV isn't hard at all. The trash is a joke, the mechanics of each boss are easy to pick up which leaves it to being a gear check after gear check. Since Bioware advertised this being for "Fresh 50s" you shouldn't have a gear check. It's incredibly easy if you're geared from Hardmodes. That wasn't Bioware's intention.

    So before you state no one here should have a podcast and that we're all complaining, you might want to look at the perspective that difficulty was not called into question and only I was the one that brought up the bit about the timers.


  3. The comment about a guy that is there for one boss, now all other bosses have the chance to drop loot for him…that was wrong.  The one guy when questioned about it said "I'm not sure"…if you aren't sure why say it in the first place.

    The council having a "1 min" enrage timer, that too is incorrect.  I know because early on it was taking a couple of min. for some people to kill their NPC.  Also the "if you heal someone else, you bug the encounter".  That's not a bug that's a mechanic of the fight.  Look at the buffs and debuffs.

    The part about the strategy for the first boss involving moving behind the pillars. That is somewhat true, but you should also be adapting your strat based on your raid comp.  Also, this only happens 3 or 4 times during the fight and there are long periods of time that it doesn't happen.  That's when you should be going nuts with your damage.  Also if that was the ONLY strat you were suppose to do during that phase you would never beat the boss as the last 10% he just sits and does that.

    Please show me where Bioware said "As soon as you hit 50 you can walk right into an Op"  Also without an enrage timer, if your tank and healer are good enough, you could 2 man the bosses. That sounds like a lot of fun.

    There were too many incorrect statements about the "Garage" (Gharj) fight to even list.  You clearly don't understand it. As I said in my first post, him and the pylons in normal mode are as close to free loot as you are going to get.

    "You're DPS has to be perfect or you won't beat the enrage timer", not true at all. I've seen DPS go down without being in full Rakata gear and still beat the enrage timer.

    The guy that got thrown into the lava…it was his fault.  It knocks you backwards, if you aren't paying attention to how your back is facing, it's your fault.  Don't blame SWTOR for bad players.

    You can take mods and enhancements out of ops gear, you cannot take out armoring or hilt/barrel.  There isn't a patch to fix that as it's already in the game.

    "Ops gear will always be better than what you can craft".  That statement isn't entirely true as you can craft gear that will have augment slots, that doesn't drop from an Op. This isn't for all gear mind you, but for some gear you can craft better.

    This is all before the first 40 min.  I don't feel like listening to the rest again to go through everything else.

  4. JJ,

    I am only 30 minutes into this podcast and your anti enrage timers rant is making me want to just stop listening for good. First of all, you depiction of the state of normal TOR Ops is way way off. I will trust you on the 6.5 minutes = enrage. But enrage does not equal instant wipe. Losing a DPS does not equal an instant wipe. Hell, I downed bosses in Karaaga's palace with a dps locked out of the raid encounter b/c he didnt see the gate.

     And I really not trying to turn this into an elitist hardcore raider vs. casual/carebare type of argument. I, in fact, do not consider myself hardcore at all and my guild right now is pretty causal. If you are struggling with normal mode…. you are doing it wrong. Hard mode isnt even hard….

    It also doesnt help that it seems you are the only one on the podcast who is raiding at the moment, so now one can legitimately challenge your views. I cringed when I saw your twitter comment about this and I'm gagging over this podcast right now. How you are protraying the state of TOR Ops is just so so so far off from reality.

  5. My guild just completed normal EV last night for the first time and I can see where the different opinions are coming from.  When we did it, some of us were already semi geared from PVP, hardmodes, etc, and some were still wearing greens.  It usually took about 2 or 3 tries to do everything so I found it challenging but not really "hard".

    I see where you are coming from on the rage timers JJ, you feel like there should be purpose in using them especially when the OP is supposed to be for fresh 50s.  I personally dont think a group of players who just hit 50 that day could go in and do it.  I will say that I enjoy it to the extent where every single raid member becomes invaluable to the raid and feels important.  As a mdps I often feel like a second class citizen in the MMO community, but here I was indispensible.  I had battle rezzes saved for me!  One of the design philosophies was to make you feel heroic and important and one thing the rage timer does is make every dpser feel important.  

    I think the main problem here is the sense of progression at level 50.  In wow everything was very clear.  You did normal dungeons, then you did heroic dungeons, then you did raids, then you did heroic raids (once those came out).  In TOR there is this sort of awkward transition from 50 to being able to do hard modes as the level 50 normals give pretty much nothing.  I personally had to do a bunch of pvp to get ready for hardmodes beyond black talon.  This is something the could certainly improve on.  Crafting would have been a great solution. but as you also discussed in the show that isnt really doing what it needs to either.

    There is plenty of room for improvement but the fans need to give these guys some times.  WOW wasnt the convenience machine it is now when it released and we shouldnt expect this of TOR.  Our feedback will be crucial to moving forward and I am looking forward to what this game will become.

  6. Just finished listening to the podcast. A lot of ranting as usual but it was fun to hear.

    Wanted to mention that the rakata energy cubes that you need to collect for the Green Matrix Shard on belsavis can be collected. 

    These cubes are lying around The Tomb in belsavis, there are a few video routes on youtube, not wanting to promote him or anything but here is one of them.

  7. You sir a god among men.  Thank you for this.

  8. Thank you all for your constructive critism πŸ™‚ It's good to know that people can have opinions of varying degrees in this day and age that are well received as such, especially in a community that has been MMO gaming for years upon years and have had multiple chances to test different developers' ideas of boss mechanics.

    If it wasn't for opinions and ideas we would stagnate in this industry and as you know you can't please everyone all at once, yet people should be afraid to speak their mind about how they feel about such things.

    If you are taking what I am saying too personally to the point that its causing you to say the things you are here in the manner that you are, there's not much I can do. Should I say nothing? Should I voice no opinion? Should I just be an emotional brick in the wall that doesn't contemplate alternative ways to achieve things? I hear a lot of people pointing fingers but not offering any solutions.

    I'm also hearing a lot of things being pointed out that was obviously brought up by myself in my own rant. I'm quite aware that my DPS probably was slacking. How do you tell which one? We don't even have combat logs in game. You give me a combat log and I'll eat an enrage timer all day long because at that point I can say "Look, this is obviously you not meeting this fight's expectations."

    As far as the 1 minute enrage on Infernal Council, that was a mistake I clearly made. I know it is 2 minutes. We record the podcast almost as soon as I wake up due to the schedule requirements we meet.

    I guess we just can't please anyone with the podcast. One week we're told we're too hardcore and the next too casual. Oh well!

    Thanks for listening guys!

  9. Really? Re-listen to the podcast. You come across as: enrage timers = automatic fail; you think differently, you are dumb. Then you try to puff up the argument with erroneous anecdotal evidence. When your whole argument is "Enrage timers on normal difficulty are a bad mechanic because they unfairly punish new or casual raiding players", you cannot give false examples of how it is punishing and not expect to be called out on them. 


    I, and I am sure many of the listeners, do not have a problem with you having an opinion or stating said opinion. Your rant was nothing close to that, however. Honestly it was very similar to the QQ'ing you see on the SWTOR forums that you and the rest of the TOROcast crew regularly mock. 

  10. Bullshit I had trouble positioning Gharj, JJ, I never tried in any serious/long term capacity =P I didn’t even try till you were dead and the one time I did taunt it I thought it -was- hitting the dps, I thought you were still dead lol – But yeah, Powertechs are better MTs cuz they can start with aggro, not have to work up to aggro like we Juggernaughts do.

    But for those of you who weren’t there, unlike most bosses he’s HUGE but his hitbox is tiny, and that seems to cause Gharj to impossible to “run through” to turn him – if you run through him, he backs up faster than you can run through him and ends up facing the raid while standing in the lava; gotta go around him or do it while he’s mid-jump to the new platform like JJ did.

    Enrage timers are fine, but not on EVERY SINGLE BOSS(on normals), especially ones where DPS is sitting still for long periods, e.g; Gharj jumping 5-6 times before coming to the new platform where we’ve all been sitting and waiting for 10seconds.

    Master Looter should work EXACTLY like it does in WoW. They’ve stolen so much else from WoW, that should have been one of them. Click item > Choose group > Choose Person to give to. When we opened that first boss’s loot window, it listed like this:

    xxxx Credits
    x Tionese Commendations
    x Tionese Crystals
    [Purple Schematic]

    Insert Player Name Here
    Insert Player Name Here
    Insert Player Name Here
    Insert Player Name Here

    That’s not cool, yo.

    As far as the knockback goes, some of them were out of position – I had to remind them and teach them how to stand on the back half of the first boss as it was; the fact that we had 4 Warriors(Me as Offtank Jugg[Dual-spec would help SO FREAKING MUCH for this so I could be dps spec for that fight], a dps jugg, and 2 marauders) didn’t help either, since Gharj’s multi-stomp + path spawns right behind him = we’re screwed and have to run through his stomp(s) taking big hits, even the healers; worse so if the adds happen to spawn right before that. Luck factor in a Raid? The PvPers can’t say Raids are so ez and scripted anymore, lol, not that they ever could.

    And finally…you so did not tell us to watch the podcast…you only told the Voogru thread even once about it =P I never saw you mention it in guild till that run where you did advertise it, and I even left the ad in the video! lol – but I am here and listening now πŸ˜‰

  11. Oh so the truth finally comes out JJ.  For shame!

  12. An even bigger problem is not that there are enrage timers, more that you only need 1 tank throughout the raid, so the off tank should be in dps spec and gear.  That gives an extra dps and makes the enrage timers easier to beat.

    This sucks for me, cos I am tank 2 in an 8 man and have to regear and and respec as a dps.

    1 tank in 8 mans is what sucks hard…that needs to be raged about πŸ˜€

  13. Ahh I love controversial topics.  Don't hate just chime in.  Battle it out.  And I would like to add, that I tend to not chime in on topics I can honestly say I don't know a whole lot about.  For instance, JJ's topic of the Operation I simply asked questions and spout out only what I have heard from the Torment guys on Vent.  I by no means hold any knowledge of raiding in SWTOR.

    So, to say that we should not be podcasting is a bit off the handle.  Unless you are stating that I should not be podcasting due to not being 50 yet.  Then I say that is unfair.  And for those of you curious as to why, the person who has been following SWTOR probably longer than most is not 50 yet it is because of a number of reason.  Mainly because I am working a lot, and house hunting both of which are eating up a ton of time.

    Anyway, no reason to leave the show just because of one rant that was disliked, I've had plenty of them, and if you've listened to the show up until now and can get behind us why QQ away from the show.  Just bring it to the comments talk it out and say "hey, noticed something here that you guys didn't get quite right."

  14. Sup guys,


    So ive got some counter arguments for JJ : When i found out about the pug friendly loot rules in operations i was kinda dissappointed.  Normal mode is essentially an "easy mode" as there are 2 difficulty levels higher than it.  I dont think anyone can really go off the rails at the moment saying the difficulty of operations is too high (especially for normal).  The gear drops in a normal operation is equivalent to hard mode flashpoints, and in my opinion, so is the difficulty.  In my first guild run of EV, we had 1 DPS disconnect and we couldnt beat the enrage timer.  2nd try was a kill.. coz we all lived.  I know what u mean when u say its difficult, but thats no excuse … especially since so much gear is dropped from each boss.  I can imagine that BW looked at the loot tables, looked at the difficulty, looked at the raid composition and size, looked at the fact its the 1ST operation….. put every consideration into play and came out with the most fair, most rewarding, most equitable and least drama filled solution possible.

    Are there any ninja looters? No – you cant!  Are people being restricted to operations by the lack of some magic key or attunement? No – Get to 50 and ur in!  Are people unaware of what roles do what witin an operation?  No – they've learned via companions what and how the trinity roles work!


    Taking "fresh 50's" straight into an operation without even a hard mode flashpoint or 2 is beyond stupid… sorry i dont have any sympathy for you there.  What i would tell your guildies to do is quit grinding PVP for gear.. instead buy gear from the GTN they need… everyone should have around 500K+ when they hit 50 even after professions, mounts and training.  Easily.  Put some thought into gearing.  Buy light/dark relics from the respective vendor.  Buy stims or get a biochem in your guild to make them, fund him or get everyone to pay him for his services.  For your own sanity's sake… get your guildies to run hard mode flashpoints to test their capabilities.  As soon as you clear normal mode Eternity Vault.. your entire guild will be swimming in gear.  Get over the hurdle and profit.

    PS:  It doesnt hurt to watch a youtube guide or 2 before going in.  If u gunna be like that JJ, i cant … finish this sentence out of respect..lol.

  15. I actually like enrage timers, like someone else said, without enrage timers you can pretty much 2-man encounters if the tank and healer is good enough. Personally I think enrage timers actually put pressure on DPS to perform, suddenly the entire responsibility of success isn't all laid down on the damn healers and tanks.

    You have to move properly AND you have to perform your role properly as a DPS, not only as a healer and a tank like most MMOs. However I do agree that some enrage timers are incredibly short… but that won't be a problem as people gear up.

    As for fresh 50's with green gear… dude go do a round of ilum+belsavis dailies and you're already half epicced out. Visit the AH and fix the rest, you can pretty much deck up for ops and HM flashpoints the instant you hit 50… that's just pure lazyness.

  16. I think things here are getting a bit out of the point of the conversation.  JJ's point was that gear dropping isn't an issue.  Right now the issue is the way its being distributed.  For instance, JJ's team had a piece drop that was good for one person but not the other and it couldn't be traded.

    Thus the piece was a wasteful drop.  The guy who wanted it has no way of getting it because of the item being BoP.  Even in the case of a PUG group this system sucks for a group that is predominantly a guild makeup.

    In the case of a PUG completely group its nice because it guarantees you something, you don't worry about going into a raid and getting nothing.

    And lets be honest here its only for normal mode.

    Now onto his statements of the raid being difficult for fresh 50's.  The raid is meant for fresh 50's be it if you have to go dump your greens or gear up just a little bit to do it.  Its all the same the raid is supposed to be for fresh 50's hopefully the fresh 50 already has the appropriate HP and gear to do the raid.

    JJ's complaint to the whole situation is his guild wiped one a few of the bosses, and he has no way of finding out who or what is causing the problem.  Maybe the entire guild is geared correctly, but someone isn't pumping out the right rotation.  THAT was his complaint.  There is no combat log, the meter has not been implemented yet.

    And if you have nothing but Melee dps for the Ghraj fight you're at a disadvantage.

    Even if you run 2 healers 2 tanks and 4 DPS you're still at a hindrance if the majority of your DPS is melee.  So again, JJ has no way of telling where his raid group is lacking or who needs to work on the rotation.

    I've been playing a Shadow Tank since Level 10, and even I am unsure of my rotation still.  I usually spend some time smacking a dummy with a DPS meter up perfecting my rotation to find the best DPS for what I had.

  17. Wasteful drops are to be expected in MMO's unfortunately… I think we should enjoy the fact that you DO get something every run, unlike most MMO's where I could go weeks without any drops whatsoever.

    As for the difficulty curve, you can be a fresh 50 and do a full round of dailies on ilum and belsavis and you're pretty much ready to do ops. This shouldn't take more than an evening to do…

    As for rotations… it's fairly easy to test without damage meters. Keep killing the same mobs until you find the optimal way to kill them as quickly as possible… didn't take me too long on my Commando to figure out what rotation I can keep up without pulling aggro and running out of ammo.

    As for being at a disadvantage for certain encounters depending on your group makeup… this has been the case as far as I can remember. If you have 4 slots for DPS… you don't fill it with 4 MDPS… you're going to end up with issues on certain encounters. Same can be said for bringing at least 1 of each class in order to have all 4 buffs. (Not having a smuggler and missing out on 5% crit for everyone is huge)


    Anywho, it is what it is, learn and adapt. πŸ™‚


    P.s: There's 1 person in my guild who is considering leaving the game because she can't find groups for ANYTHING. Flashpoints, heroic quests, anything. There's just not enough people per server to have a well supported playerbase throughout all levels. Once the initial wave reached 50, rolling alts is pretty much a soloing fest or sitting on your ass for hours on end to put groups together. Took me 35 minutes to fill a DPS spot for my hard modes yesterday. (Heavy pop server at peak)

  18. Simple way to test DPS and practice rotation, find an NPC with as much health as possible that you are able to solo without your companion.  When you find one, just kill it over and over again, timing your kills and working on your rotation or priority list.  Also, spend a little time looking on various sites for what other people have found for their rotation/priority.

    A couple of suggestions for mobs are the Elite NPCs that are for the stealth daily.  Also, while these are much lower, there are some champion NPCs on Hoth that have 130k HP but are lvl 40.  They won't kill you, but you can get in lots of practice killing them.  As a bonus, they drop some nice credits.

    As to the gear destined for people in Ops, yeah, it would suck if you can only kill one boss, but as you go through, you will get down several each week and your raid will gear up very quickly.  Especially when you add in the comendations and if they are doing hard modes.  As someone else said though, there will always be gear that drops that no one in the Op can use.  At least in this case, it tries to make gear drops specific to the ACs that are in the Ops group.

  19. Some criticisms of the last episode (and a few before) would be that JJ talks over people at times, holding his opinions too tightly and dismissing other cast members viewpoints to the degree of coming across as an asshole.  This is particularly apparent when he's talking with Pants and/or Tom, both of whom will tend to back down from points that JJ is challenging.


    JJ, you're intelligent and capable of adding real interest to the cast through the strength of your personality.  Just try to tone down these meglomaniacal tendencies and the cast will stay strong.  

  20. I was the merc healer of that OP attempt. Let me say a few things. There were several reasons we failed it and some of you that finished it without as much difficulty I'm sure.

    1) Some of our DPS were undergeared. Greens and such around and even some sporting the wrong gear for their class. Some of them have/had NOT done any dailies or Hard modes.

    2) Some of the group had a hard time understanding the mechanics and were standing in the wrong spot or what-not and causing them to take extra damage which caused more stress on the healers. Especially since the melee in a lot of boss encounters have less room for failure for where they are standing (including Gharj).

    3) Something Xzenomath pointed out I never realized…we were missing the Imperial Agent buff.

    4) This boss fight with Gharj was made harder with our DPS being mostly melee except 1 sorcerer. I'm sure if we had one or two less melee it would have caused less overall health to drop and easier to stay alive. And during Gharj's AOE the melee either had to stand and take it (causing overall guild HP to drop badly) or run out and then overall we lost DPS on him. It's pretty much unavoidable as a MDPS. That coupled with the rock jumping runs (and missing stones) caused one or two to die near the end.

    The whole combat log / DPS meter conversation would definitely help us figure out exactly who needs more help with gear OR combat rotation, which in turn would help us as a guild get better.

    Saying 'you are doing it wrong' isn't exactly explaining why we might of failed and you might have succeeded. Personally I think it was more then just one thing but more of a combination of the 4 things I mentioned.

  21. It does seem like a lot of factors made it difficult for you guys, no doubt about it.

    I think giving it another week, letting people do dailies and then trying to balance the raid composition would greatly improve your odds and the enrage timers won't seem so harsh anymore.

    Personally I've yet to raid and I can't wait… if the hard mode flashpoints are any indicator of how punishing some of the content will be, I really, really can't wait.

  22. I wish I had some way of plus oneing a post cause I would give you an up vote Xzeno

  23. Hello TOROcast crew. This is the second show I've listened to now and I really enjoy it. Thanks for doing it. I don't always agree with your views but I love any and all discussion about the game. I like the tips section and was wondering if you could do different segments or pro tips for specific classes? ex….For one show do 5 tips for being a better Sawbones healer, next show 5 tips for xxx class. I also like the view points of players from different levels and playstyles. ex…I found myself spacebarring a lot of the quest stories, but after listening to you guys talk about how cool a lot of them are, and how you slowed down and took time to enjoy them, well, I found out that I do enjoy that also. 

     I really do enjoy hearing all opinions of the game ,but as some of the comments stated sometimes the length of time you guys go on rants can really turn someones view point negative. Maybe condense the ranting to a shorter stint or something…but this is a fine line whereas I do want to know about buggy or bad game design. Just wanted to toss that out there.  

    Great show. You made a listener out of me. Thanks and keep up the good work.

  24. Welcome to listening to our Rat Pack Tally.

    Its difficult for us to do tips per class mainly because we aren't all playing every class.  But its a good idea maybe we can have people submit their tips for each class and we'll look them all over.

    As for the Rants, all I can say is keep listening not all of our shows will be as ranty.

  25. Nothing we can do about the Raid Composition really XZeno, at least not yet with the 50s we have =

    I personally changed the gmotd to tell people to go do the lv50 dailies for SUPER easy gear upgrades, though – I spent 3ish hours last night doing Belsavis and Ilum’s dailies and got ALL my 23 Armorings(I already had a 23 hilt) and then pretty much min/maxed myself via the AH so much the Daily Comm rewards other than the Earring won’t be upgrades for me Tank-wise lol

  26. Yeah that's what I meant. Takes a couple hours, knock out both dailies chains and you're pretty much decked out. I've only been twice, maybe 3 times and Elara Dorne is as decked out as I am now. It's SO easy to gear up for hard modes and operations.

    As for the group composition, I know how it feels. Still waiting on some slow pokes to catch up to the rest of us before we can start doing operations as a guild… and too many of them are sentinels.

    I'm sure once your guildies all do a set of dailies or two and head back in there though, the upgrades will make all the difference where you'll be able to beat the enrage timer even if you're at a disadvantage with the group makeup.

    I know it sucks to take a pug over guildies… but there isn't a better way to motivate people to roll an agent than finding a pug and taking a sniper along for runs. All the agent loot goes to them and they pretty much have a guarantee spot due to the very important buff they provide. It'd be silly to hold the entire guild back because everyone and their mother decided to roll an assassin or marauder.

    Just my 2 cents, take it for what it is!

  27. I Sympathize with JJ about the enrage timers, every boss have them including the ones in Hard Mode Flashpoints and some of the timers are pretty quick, I dont like to feel like Im racing against the clock in every boss, but that mechanic is supposed to be so people dont stack healers and just faceroll the instance, its supposed to be hard.

    Also I think its pretty obvious by now that Operations are NOT designed for fresh fifties, if you check the gear that the boss drop is Columi, that is Tier 2, so its obvious you need to get Tier 1 first, Tionesse from the Hard Modes, also consider that a fresh fifty could still be in Corellia, in order to do Operations you would need to gear up on Ilum first, then do a few Hard Modes and in about a week  you could be not fully geared but maybe have enough pieces for Operations (Champion and Centurion gear from pvp is viable too) 

    Some of the first bosses are pretty easy too, I did Karagga for the first time and beat Bonetrasher after only one wipe, Jarg and Sorno on the first try. some bosses only need 1 tank so thats an extra DPS there and remember that Tanks in this game can put some good dps too, specially if they are enhanced by Stims, Adrenals and Relics.

    I would also like to see tools like combat log or dps meters to be able to work better with the enrage timer, I don't mind the ranting that much because anyone that has wiped because of the enrage timer can sympathize with JJ to a degree, also I have listened to other podcasts/shows that are pretty much bitching sessions, your show is pretty cool.

  28. For the past three weeks I have pugged EV Normal Mode with 7 other random people. They cannot make it any easier.  There is some expectation that you spend some time at 50 gearing up–by which I mean you do the 3 level 50 normal mode Flashpoints, and finish your quest lines on Corellia.  Dinging 50 does not magictastically give you the numbers, you need to update your stat sticks.

    On a different note, I find your "Jefferey" bits not funny, and quite frankly rather offensive to people with actual speech impediments. I think you're alienating members of your community with this bit instead of helping your podcast.  Next week you might as well have Sam do his best Angry Black Man and Tom his British Pansy Knob Jockey.


    I've listened to your podcast for a full month now. Some of the factual information you give is blatantly inaccurate. Where's the best place to tell you this? I think you should add a new segment called  "Oops" were you correct the misinformation from the week before.  To clarify: I'm not talking about JJ and Mine's differing opinions Operations difficulty,  but at times you reference facts (Things said by Bioware,  where to get things in game, etc) that are incorrect.  NPR does it, and it's why people respect them.



  29. We’ve had a discussion about Jeffrey this week. While I can’t say that I agree that we are alienating anyone with a speech problem. We are all pretty much in agreement that the Jeffrey segments are pretty much dead.

    And to clarify I’m not black. And Tom (@redundant09) is not British. Now as for the “Oops” I’ve definitely come forward and said that I was wrong, Look at crafting and space combat anyone can agree there, no one expected the words wow this is actually fun to come out of my mouth on those situations.

    I’d be interested to know about the being wrong with the “where to get things in game” I know we don’t always quote BW 100%. But damnit I was there when Daniel Erickson said there won’t be any pop cultural references in the game because its breaks immersion.

    Thanks for listening to the show though, we hope you are at least enjoying it.

  30. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PENGUINS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

  31. TOROcast would like to apologize for any and all misinformation for last weeks show. We have realized that a lot of folks are upset by this and we’ll do our best to avoid this situation again. We hope that while the information may have been off, that you still enjoyed listening to the show. Entertaining our listeners while providing accurate information about the game has always been a huge priority for us. We hope that you all understand that the game is still new and we are all as a collective 1.7 million subscribers are still learning about all aspects of the game. Which does include Raid encounters’ strategies. Again we are sincerely sorry for this error and will do our best to not let it happen again.

  32. I’d like to clarify, and I’m sure I’ll stir up the waters here, that the game is new. It’s been just over a month.

    Guess what? Boss strategies change. When they first come out everyone will say “do it this way” and others will say “No this way is better” and then another group will say “you’re all idiots, it is this way.”

    Opinions. People can have opinions. People point there finger at me and tell me I’m a bad player because our DPS wasn’t up to par like I have some control over how they play. If I said “Man I couldn’t hold agro for crap” then yes, I’m bad.

    Not everyone likes to look up strategies at first either. Some people like figuring the mechanics out. I’m tired of the attitude “OH MAI GOD Y DIDNT YOU KNOW THIS”. I’m not saying we went in blind, I’m saying the general attitude people have sucks.

    The last point: There are a million boss YouTube videos. No two are the same. There are quite a good amount of websites that have boss strategies. Some are going to have varying methods of defeating the boss. In addition, sometimes you have to make modifications due to your raid composition. And until we see some sort of combat parsing, there is no way to prove that “your” way of doing the fight is better than someone elses. Who’s to say on Gharj it is better to run first then hit the adds, or deal with the adds while the platform is sinking. You can’t compare damage output versus damage taken. You can simply say “Well we did it this way and it worked” Well guess what, so did the other way, that’s why someone put it out there.

    If people want to complain about actual factual information (like I said, I was wrong on the council’s enrage timer) then by all means, that’s fine. We’re all human, we make mistakes and I just ask that people have some patiences and understanding.

  33. Indeed. We’re a casual guild so I wouldn’t expect a ton πŸ˜‰ Though I’ve been raiding since Vanilla WoW up to Cata and before most nerfs hit so I know what I’m doing and end up getting Boss Mechanics right off the bat without watching a vid first…I never used DBM cuz I didn’t need it, while people who DID have it died often.

    Spatial awareness is more your friend than any strategy or addon ever will be kids. Learn to love it.

    I’ll also be recording this week’s run for my Youtube channel, at least the successful kills or best attempts so we have something to review.

  34. JJ, I stand by every one of my comments. I don’t believe I said that you were doing the wrong start, I said you either didn’t understand the fight, or you needed to adapt your strat. I said that “some people like figuring out the mechanics” That is very true, and I welcome anyone that wants to do this, but they shouldn’t complain about the mechanics of the fight if they don’t fit the strat that they come up with. If you have a valid strat and you cannot do the fight due to bugs, such as when NM Soa had mindtraps with so much HP it made it mathematically impossible to do the fight, that is a legitimate complaint.

    The overall point I was making was that you have to adapt your strat based on your Op comp and abilities. Also, while you may not have direct control over how much damage a DPSer does, there will be clues that they are under performing. If they are constantly dying, or always getting hit with things they shouldn’t be (talk to your healers). Watch for debuffs on the boss. You may not understand or know what every class does, but you should have a few overlapping classes in your ops, talk to them see if they notice one person doing the wrong rotation, or a BH that is always high on heat, etc. These are all little things that can go a long way to improving the overall success of your ops group.

  35. Our clue was we didn’t down them πŸ™‚ I’ve been cracking the whip on them all this week telling them if they want a raid spot they need to have their mods from dailies and pieces from HBT. We have our crafters working overtime pumping out mods to fill and biochems making medpacks and stims and we have someone making implants for everyone.

    Hopefully in another week’s time my DPS will be geared up. Myself and the healers and my “offtank” (who now went DPS since we dont need an offtank) are all ready to go. Just waitin on our deeps.

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