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TOROcast – Ep 145 – Sammless

Samm is moving this week so Tom takes over and runs the show with JJ and guest host Ian.  The crew discusses the Q&A and the happenings of PAX East 2012 for Star Wars the Old Republic. Discuss the show below.

About SammMoney

Hey there friends I am Samm 'Money' Carbo, owner of Twonk Hammer Entertainment, LLC. In March of 2009, along with a dearly missed friend I started a podcast some may know; The TOROcast based on Star Wars: The Old Republic, unfortunately that game was not a fit for me however I did not want to give up podcasting and reviewing games. Thus I started this site, and The Ban Hammer podcast. I am the proud father of currently one, work as a computer tech during the day, and a mail man on Saturday's as you can imagine my life is busy. Follow me on Twitter @SammMoney and of course follow us here @TwonkHammer.

28 comments

  1. I did not listened to the show yet, but reading Jaramukhtis comment just want to say…

    Soccer > Rugby > American football.
    (soccer in USA, the rest of the world call it Football, the truly football since you use your feet to play, xD)

    I am from São Paulo, Brazil and… well, we OWN football art, 5 times world champions (including USA World Cup – 1994) Tom should know, the brits created it but we are the ones that knows how to play it… =P

    And the next World Cup is here, 2014, yaaay

    PS: hey Samm lets go PP…

  2. Samm? SAMM?! SAAAAAMM!

    On a personal note, I’m just now dealing with the euphoria after finding out 1.2 is actually coming tomorrow. I’ve tested Legacy on the PTS, but it wasn’t the same as tinkering with a non-test toon. I want to play around with it on my carefully crafted and leveled toons. Those are the ones I care about most. Tomorrow, I’ll FINALLY get that chance. I am so friggin stoked, you have no idea. Also, I have grown to love my custom UI. I mourn every time I have to leave the PTS, with its better fps and my custom UI, behind. Again, tomorrow I get them back, and I am on cloud 9.

    American football can be very tactical, that is true. I agree with JJ about the chess game analogy, with one addition.

    Imagine if you had a chess game where you have the same pieces, but somehow the opponent’s are just better than yours. They’re bigger, they’re faster, they can do more, etc.

    That’s another area where strategy in American football gets even more complex: talent disparity. I’m sure Tom could make that same case in European football. Goodness knows all players are not created equal.

    For instance (in American football), you might draw up a really sweet pass to the slot receiver that is almost a guaranteed first down in a crunch situation. This play has lots of misdirection to fool the secondary, lots of shifting at the line of scrimmage to bait the linebackers. Say this pass is almost a gimme, and about 95-98% of safeties aren’t going to sniff this out, or aren’t fast enough to recover when they realize what is coming. Now imagine the safety on the opposing side is Troy Palomalu. Not only is he likely to see it coming a mile away, no matter what misdirection you throw at him (because he is a very smart player), but the guy is like a fucking bullet. He WILL recover if he doesn’t pick it up right at the snap. Because of that x factor, a play that might otherwise be a gimme must be taken into careful consideration – mostly because you have to decide if your slot receiver is good enough to negate Troy Polamalu’s advantage. If I was the coach of most teams, I probably wouldn’t chance it. However, if I was the coach of the New England Patriots and had Wes Welker, one of the best slot receivers in NFL history, in the slot, I would most likely take my chances and go with the play.

    American football can be extremely complex in its strategies. Strategies can range from dialing up a long pass play when the secondary shows vulnerability, to a naked bootleg that can get you 2 or 3 yards on a 4th and 1, and so on. When you add in the fact that you will have to gameplan around the opposing team’s talent, as well, it just gets more interesting.

    But I can certainly see why some in other countries would be put off if the announcer doesn’t seem interested or knowledgeable about the game.lol

    Oh, also, Tom, never, in any chess game I’ve ever seen, did one player get the living shit knocked out of him for taking too long to make a move.

    That happens routinely in American football. Just ask any quarterback who stayed in the pocket too long with 6’4″, 307lb Ndamukong Suh bearing down on him.

  3. Fair enough, Stronghand. I will respectfully disagree (might be because I was born in America, and never have been able to get through any soccer game not featuring an American team), but I’m sure it is for the same reason you love soccer.

    American football is what I grew up with, and I know and love its nuances. Nuances that sometimes outsiders just don’t see, and maybe never will.:)

    On PAX East: Biggest thing for me was that James Ohlen and Damion Schubert confirmed in their interview that LFG is coming in 1.3.

  4. Yes, I dont know the rules and nuances but I believe that rugby have got 2 main differences (correct me if I am wrong pls):

    1 – Rugby you can only pass the ball to a player coming from behind your position;
    2 – You dont wear “special clothing”, it is a shirt a shorts an go for it boy!

    Do you guys prefer ‘football’? Because rugby looks harder to play, more challenging?

  5. I had a feeling the comments will be sports based :P

    I hear people compare American football to chess a lot and I normally reply but chess is boring. I don’t find it fun seeing someone get the shit knocked out of them. If I wanted that, I’d watch boxing or wrestling. Again my biggest complaint about American Football is how stop/start it is. You have about one minute of actual gameplay and then about 3 minutes of adverts. I just can’t get into something that stops that many times and so quickly. Its just ridiculous in my opinion.

    I don’t mind rugby but I prefer football. Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder. You have to be more physically strong in rugby yes but in football you have to use only your feet and brute strength won’t get you far in football. Its a combinations of many things. See thats the great thing with football. Anyone can play and be great at it. In games like rugby and American football if your not built like a brick shit house your screwed. Whereas in football if you small but quick, you can get out of the wing and use your speed to your advantage. Are you a big guy, you’d be good in central of defence where you can be strong and shake off the striker.

    Again this is only my opinion and I truly respect your enjoyment of American Football. I would never want to take that away from anyone.

    Also Stronghand yea when Brazil are in the mood the football they play is unbelievable. It truly is jaw dropping.

    Aye the commercials was the biggest thing that annoyed me about American Football.

  6. I am familiar with Rugby, and there are a lot more differences than just those two. The positioning of the teams is different. The scoring is different. How you strategize is different. Though your comment made me think of one of my favorite videos that just so happens to fit this debate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDyyDOJeTv4

    I guess, given the right circumstances, Rugby and American football can be quite similar.XD

    On your comment Tom, you are right. Physicality plays a huge part in American football. I won’t try to deny that. However, how many big, fat guys do you see playing professional soccer? Soccer is as dependent on a certain type of well-defined physicality as American football – but while American football (often) favors strength, soccer favors speed.

    That said, the desired traits needed to play in American football differ from position to position. For instance, one guy I mentioned above, Wes Welker, is all of 5’9″, 185lbs. He is not going to win on pure strength, but the position he plays does not depend solely on pure strength. He is a slot receiver, and the job of the slot receiver is to get you important short yardage gains through the air. Also, you want your slot receivers to be quick in order to get yac (yards after catch) on short screens or dump off passes. Across the board different positions require different physical types to get the most out of them.

    -Possession receivers need to be tall in order to get up over the corners in long passing situations; Corners, on the other side, need to either be tall enough to hang with the wide receiver, or have a high enough vertical leap to out jump them.

    -Tight ends need to be tall, strong, and have soft hands because they have to catch and block.

    -Ideal offensive linemen differ depending on whether you are a run oriented team (run oriented teams need OL to be strong and bulky to move guys off the line of scrimmage) or a pass oriented team (pass oriented teams need OL to be big, but also quick on their feet to pick up pass rushers while the quarterback operates).

    -Linebackers need to be big enough to get in there with the OL and DL, but quick enough to get to the quarterback for a sack if the opening is there. They also have to help in pass protection, so they need to be somewhat fast.

    And so on.

    In the end, it really does come down to what we know, and what we are familiar with. I don’t know much about soccer, but I know people who can go on and on about its tactics the way I can do with football. I grew up with football, and I know its intricacies the way people who grew up with soccer know its intricacies.

    Where someone who didn’t grow up with American football sees a few minutes of play and endless adverts, I see setting up for the next series, wondering if the offensive coaches will make the right call against a good defense.

    Where I see a bunch of guys running around for an hour before anyone scores, soccer enthusiasts see a group of players controlling the field, methodically planning out their next attack.

    We each see our favored sports differently.

    I should say that I do dislike how many commercial timeouts there are in the professional game today. College football isn’t nearly as bad as the NFL, but sadly the NFL treats most football games like advertisement opportunities.

  7. On the subject of the podcast – enough sports talk – I actually did go to google images and type that in, JJ.

    Yeah, someone actually showed a side-by-side comparison of the TERA models as compared to the American version…

    http://www.bitgamer.su/imagebucket/Elin-2.jpeg

    So yeah… There are so many things wrong there…

  8. OMG SAMM WHERE DID YOU FIND A PICTURE OF ME TOM AND JJ ALL IN THE SAME PLACE that has to be a photoshop job

  9. I love the show; thank you very much.

    Tom is incorrect about American football. But that pales in comparison to not having seen Clockwork Orange. While it could not be shown in Britain for 27 years, it is available now and everyone should see every Kubrick movie. Age is no excuse.

    Like the podcast, let me eventually get to TOR. Regarding the crafting question: perhaps you should not comment on crafting issues. I found the concept of waiting until a patch is out to make crafting decisions to be bad advice. I am used to in WoW scanning patch notes and crafting blogs to plan ahead. There is much ridicule for people who, on Tuesday, play 1000% of the pre-patch price. In WOTLK the price of titanium quadrupled within a day of a PTR note coming out and it was two months before the patch.

    This summer will be the third expansion where WoW Alchemists get an unlimited reuse flask for that expansion. So I would regard them as more of a MMO standard feature than an exploit.

    The point that can be overlooked is that the BoE items from a profession are irrelevant; you can buy them. What determines the optimal profession is what do you get that you could not do without that profession. Bioware designed December TOR where it was obvious that the only rational profession for an endgame player was biochem. I can not believe that Bioware was so clueless about MMOs as to not know this. Instead of adding other items so that the bonus for having that profession was comparable to BioChem, they nerfed biochem. I can understand players being confused at this.

  10. I agree with Tom 100%. Down here we play it since age of 1.

    Its a game “more accessible”, any child can grab a ball and use his shoes to mark the goal in the middle of the street. You do not need equipment, a huge goal, communication radios, etc.

    Jaramukhti I believe there is one football team you have to watch, is the best in the world, Barcelona and has Messi (from Argentina) who plays football very, veeeeery well. You will not regret, believe me.

    xD

    PS: USA has the best female’s ‘soccer’ team in the world, you should be proud, they are good.

  11. Wasn’t Han basically smuggling Luke, Obi-Wan, and the droids to Alderaan?

  12. LOL at JJ explaining why flying mounts wouldnt work as if the listeners are a buncha idots…..Oh really blizzard had to re program Azeroth so we could fly in it? HERP DERP

    SAMM get yo arse back on asap, lets talk some Guild Wars

  13. JJ was correct with what he said. Before they could allow flying mounts on Azeroth they had to pretty much rebuild it. Because if you were to fly over certain things you wouldn’t see anything apart from shells of buildings. It was built to be viewed at the ground level.

  14. My friends and I used to fly over azeroth during WoTLK… in private servers with fly-hack… xD

    Is Ian going to host the show from now on?
    He could do it, he is ‘then00b’ but that is ok…

    Just look at JJ-Tera player… shame on you JJ.

    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM — Breaking news!!!

    SWTOR is down after 1.2a, they mess up the version of the game and the net has gone wild, haha.
    The best comment that I have seen is from massively.com:

    “I betcha Bioware believes in Friday the 13th now”

    =P

  15. There are still examples of it in the game (WoW) now – in Burning Crusade. Just try to fly over Black Temple sometime. You’ll be impeded by a mysteeeeerious invisible barrier. Spooky.

  16. I just take it as a sign that demand has increased since 1.2. People are frothing at the mouth to get back on, so any delay feels like getting punched in the balls.

    I know I feel it. Damn it, I need to get my BH out of Hutta so I can start making my way to 50 and the BH buff on all my toons…

  17. Lets recap the past few days.

    – People able to download the 1.2 patch pre maturely. Which resulted in people not being able to play the game for days and biowares response was just redownload the whole game.

    – 7 hours before the 1.2 patch went live, after 2/3 months of advertising that there would be rated warzones. Its suddenly on the 11th hour gone. Bioware responded, we discoverd on the last moment something was wrong. Which should have been detected days ago. But since only PvE guilds got character copies, and not 1 pvp guild it wasnt tested untill the last PvP weekend. Which then even was tested by PvE players.

    – Then suddenly the 30 days of playtime appear for people who have been long time subscribers. But they quickly add to that you need to be atleast level 50. I mean long time sub means the time you play… not if you before 12th of april have a level 50 (something you could in theory do in 5 days) But instead screw people over who dont have a level 50 yet, but have been a subscriber since day 1.

    – And now the do this.. they apparently are so bad at this, that they dont even use the 1 hour extra time they had to check if everything was done properly. No instead “The servers are up 1 hour earlier”. Add to that the fact apparently they were so dumb to use a template of 1.1.5 instead of the 1.2 to hotfix.

    I really wonder what biowares quality control is since its lacking tremendously.

    Add to that all the previous issues they have had. Like the whole Ilum debacle, which now has lead into the fact that BW simply murderd Open world PvP since they cant get it to work in any possible way.

    No character copies to the PTS to help test something before throwing patch after patch and hotfix after hotfix to fix issues created by the previous patch/hotfix.

    No bioware, i dont know what you are doing but this is not developing/enhacing a MMO in 2012 anymore. You cant even be arshed apparently to use the 1 hour extra to discover you are running the 1.1.5 template for the hotfixes, and are pretty much removing the features you introduced the previous day.

    By – schippernick, massively.com

  18. @Irishbrewed I’m not even sure if you’re questioning the validity of what I said or not. It sounds like you don’t believe that they had to. Or maybe you’re saying everyone and their mother knew it. Truth is, a lot don’t. And in case you or others don’t, here’s some easily researched information about it from 2008.

    http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=64117/mounts-in-all-of-azeroth-wtb

    Specifically two blue quoted posts on this page (since the WoW forums were overhauled and lost to the sands of time)

    “Unfortunately our designers and developers are not a limitless sea of people; there are decisions that have to be made as to where we should appropriately direct the development efforts. It’s our feeling that providing new content, new places to explore and progress your character, new races and professions, all equal a very worthwhile expenditure of our resources. We’re definitely committed to ensuring parts of the game already developed continue to be refined, but in this case delaying an expansion for a potentially “very long time” just wouldn’t make sense, and wouldn’t be very fair to our fans and players who would rather keep progressing their character than flying through places they’ve already been.

    Let’s say that we did allow flying mounts in Azeroth and chose to redesign it at some point, it would be no small task. We would need to correct all of the terrain outside of the ‘walkable’ areas, including building out zones that currently don’t exist but through lore are known to exist in those areas. We would also have to rework most outdoor areas as content not intended to be bypassed could be, as well as any possible terrain exploitation potential (ie lots of time testing and refining). We would need to think about what happens when the edge of the map is reached. Since Outland is flat, a bounding wall makes sense, but for a planet that starts to break down. Do players zone in to the other continent while flying or do we make it seamless? If it’s seamless we have to rebuild our server architecture, not to mention any further technical issues, etc. etc. While summed up in a sentence or two each of these things would require teams of people working together for a long time to pull off well.

    It really all comes down to making the game fun to play for everyone, and allocating resources and time to do that as efficiently as possible. Right now spending time reworking Azeroth so that flying mounts can simply exist, for some ease of travel and sight seeing, doesn’t seem like an appropriate use of our time or efforts. In the future though, who knows?”

    And

    “As much as people keep trying to convince us we need to do this there are reasons for things being the way they are. For one, Outland was created specifically with flying mounts in mind. From the ground up to the sky, we worked on the technology involved to make this happen. For another, by keeping them a part of Outland, it makes them unique to the new land and relays a sense of ‘ooh and ahh’ that they aren’t commonplace all around Azeroth too. Also, to retro-fit Azeroth to allow for them would take a lot of time and it’s time we’d much rather dedicate to moving forward towards new content than trying to rework something.

    Time and resources are two things we are very careful about and as you can see from reading the forums, a lot of people believe we should be doing more with it no matter how much we actually do. We do the best we can to put out fixes and content as quickly as possible but we have a constraint we’ve put on ourselves as well that if we are going to put something out there, that we should do it well and with Blizzard quality in mind. This is something that will always be at the top of our list to strive for.”

    The same conversation took place with SW:TOR developers last year in our interviews. The reason flying speeders/ships wasn’t allowed is along the same reason why there isn’t a dynamic day/night system: it allows the developer to easily design worlds in which your eyes will naturally be drawn to their creative work. How lame would the first time you see those statues on Dromund Kaas if you were flying from above? Or during the middle of the night? They wouldn’t look nearly as imposing and bleak as they do when you walk around that path and the skyline opens up enough for you to see it towering above.

    So again, take it how you will because I certainly can’t tell if you’re doubting me or saying it was plainly obvious. Might not want to be so aggressive next time ;) In any case, I know there -are- people who don’t know the reasoning behind it as I was present for multiple conversations stating it was held off until Cata on purpose for a selling gimmick and could have easily been allowed in the past (as evident by the people in that WOWhead thread asking for it)

  19. Ok lets go through what that guy said on massively. One point at a time.

    Yes Bioware fucked up with the downloading the patch prematurely. They held their hand up and said “Yea our bad, it was human error. We’re sorry.” People have been saying for ages if companions come forward and be more open with the community they would understand. Bollocks.

    Ranked warzone again yes disappointing that it was implemented. However, I’m sure every damn one of us would be raging even more if they pushed it out in a buggy state just causing more problems. Again Bioware bit the bullet and said “Its not ready yet, we’re not going to push it.”

    I cannot believe people are complaining about 30 days of free time. Well 31 days now because they added one for yesterdays maintenance. Its unbelievable. Only MMO players can complain about that. Ok only level 50’s sure, maybe players that can’t really play much get a bit screwed. Oh wait a minute if anyone is legacy level 6 they get the 30 days too. People still complain. Now don’t get me wrong, this is kinda sucky for players like Ian who doesn’t have a character even hit legacy yet. But they are few and far between. Again I don’t know why they didn’t extend it for everyone who has subscribed from day one.

    Also this idiot doesn’t seem to understand how patching works. “ont even use the 1 hour extra time they had to check if everything was done properly” First off when patches hit, the devs are actively adding the patch to the live servers then and there. The patch has already been done and the reason they say a big maintenance window is so they have a lot of wiggle room if something goes wrong. Sometimes it takes a few hours to apply the patch, sometimes something comes up and they need the full 8 hours. Releasing the patch 1 hour earlier would not have ANY implication whatsoever to the quality of the patch.

    People really need to chill, take a step back and start to think.

  20. I just checked out your podcast for the first time.. and normally I never comment but a few things got me going..

    First on football..
    Soccer players = small little men that run alot and kick the ball so skill but now where near that of american football players
    Football players = huge much more athletic men that must run, pass, catch, tackle, take violent hits, ect..

    On being a manager..I could not disagree more. I own my own company and if my managers are expecting employees to come to them with solutions then they are fired. Its my managers job to find the solutions to my employees problems. Not my employees responsibility to do my managers job..

  21. So you don’t believe that football (soccer) players run, pass, catch, tackle and take violent hits? The amount of legs that have been snapped in football is crazy. Sure its not as full contact as American football or rugby but you still have to be fit as hell.

    Again its all down to personal preference.

  22. Yeah… I do not agree with Drexxon’s comments (though I’m glad he values American football).

    I may not know much about the mechanics of soccer, but it is pretty damn obvious it takes a great deal of stamina to play. You basically have to run back and forth around the field for 90 mins, at varying speeds (sometimes dead running, sometimes sprinting, darting, jogging). The amount of endurance it would take to keep your legs under you must be incredible.

    It’s closest cousin in the stamina department would have to be basketball. Basketball is another sport that, while it does place some value on strength (particularly if you play in the post), it also requires a great deal of sustained motion. The game barely slows down. You run up the court and down the court, defend, score, fight for position for 48 mins (regulation, not counting overtime) – and you have to do it 82 times in a regulation NBA season. That is crazy.

    It really does come down to personal preference whether you like or dislike a sport. But each sport is demanding in its own way. American football takes an amazing amount of athletic ability to play – but every sport out there can stake that claim.

  23. Agreed. Honestly, had Bioware pushed Ranked Warzones out of the gate in an unfinished state, you could just replace the current bitching with different bitching. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    MMO communities are so fickle. You gotta love them… You have to, or you’d want to kick their teeth in.

  24. As an American who grew up with football and soccer both surrounding me, I have to agree with Tom in that American football is way to stop/start.  I am by no means a sports guy, I go to sports parties to be with friends rather than to watch a game, but soccer at least can keep my attention because it is always moving and rarely stops.  American football, you have to deal with the announcers talking about the players individually, timeouts, flashes to other games, and everything else between the commercials.  

  25. I agree with you guys, BUUUUUUUUUT if something that you promisse at a guild summit 40 days ago is not ready (neither minimally tested), pls dont promisse that. Sell what you have.

    First Ilum was broken, now RWZ is broken, but they need players to tell them how to do it and why it is broken… well, lets hire someone who understands the subject then… go to the PvP forum and get one player, easy.

  26. @JJ

    I was saying that was obvious but you presented as if it was information. Maybe I’m wrong, I’m an old man so maybe these youngsters don’t understand simple code principles in these games. I might be guilty of giving ppl too much credit. If so continue talking to me like I’m a 5 year old ;)

  27. true story. that’s pretty much the only smuggling he does on-screen the entire trilogy, tho.

  28. thank you for your kind words. i have no idea if/when i’ll be back…soooo…keep on truckin’ til then, i guess. also my n00bishness really just pertains to MMOs…i’m not new to gaming, especially star wars games. this strange MMO world still scares and confuses me sometimes, tho

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