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Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

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TalN

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:11 am

Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

It's time for me to go digging around for information again. Thankfully this one isn't as hard to explain as predicting the planets which TOR will have (although the new holonet maps are thankfully supporting my theories thus far).

So then, E3. Nice video eh? And it also has many people asking... Who was SHE?

When I first saw the video, the uniform she was wearing did look somewhat out of place for the Sith. While it was certainly dark it wasn't black and her face didn't show any signs of Darkside corruption. Which didn't make much sense as I thought all of the Sith were force-wielders to some degree. Or at least this new batch of Sith were. However the new timeline video has announced that there are two Sith groups, the Sith Empire which is made up of non-force adepts and the Sith Lords who are Force Sensitive. But with E3 over and the smuggler update announced the seperate snippets of information are starting to come together like a jig-saw puzzle. Let me start with the most obvious bit of evidence.

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That should have got some alarm bells ringing for some people. The woman from the video is not a completely unknown entity. Her uniform has appeared before in the very first screenshots that TOR released. Furthermore we know that Bioware has specifically said that ALL classes are already in-game and playable, but at the moment they're all going through tweaking to get them right. So it would be fair to say, that we have seen all of the classes the game has in some of the screenshots by now. We've seen the Trooper, we've seen the BH, we've seen the Smuggler and of course we've seen the Jedi and the Sith. That just leaves 3 classes now. 1 Republic faction and 2 Sith faction.

Now bear with me here because for this to make sense you're going to need the official TOR site in-hand. Go look at the timeline videos in the holocron. At the top is the timeline bar with notches or markers at various points which are the topics that the Holocron videos are covering. It starts with the most recent event in Republic history and then goes backwards. You'll notice that the last available vid was about the smuggler blockade. The next one after that is going to talk about the re-emergence of the Mandalorians (as seen at the very end of the smuggler video) and the one after the Mandalorian timeline video says this:

Frustrated by a series of Republic Military victories, Imperial Intelligence adopted new tactics to force an end to the war


So shortly before the Smuggler announcement we had the Smuggler timeline video (obviously explaining why the Smuggler class is in the game) and after they talk about the Mandalorians we have a video explaining Imperial Intelligence... which, I believe, will lead into the announcement of the Sith Spy class. Or you could call it Sith Operative. Or Sith Infiltrator. I dunno. Whatever the name is, it is all the same.

Want some more support? I'm all for it! The Bounty Hunter and the Trooper are clearly mirrors of each other. Some people thought the Smuggler was the BH counter-part or that the Smuggler was with the Sith. But those people were wrong on both accounts. The Smuggler isn't about heavy weapons, the description of them is someone who uses cunning and guile to reach their objectives. They're stealthy. They know how to escape and survive dangerous situations. They manipulate circumstances to give them the edge and out of all of the other classes Bioware has described them as the 'social' class. They get the dialogue options so they can smooth talk people or bit a bit sly when dealing with others. So then, we need a Sith counter-part or mirror class for the Smuggler. Know of any other potential class which needs to be stealth? Uses cover? Needs to get out of dangerous situations? Sabotages the enemy's plans to get the advantage? Gathers information from people? Exactly! A spy.

This is who we see in the video. It was Bioware saying 'Hey look, a new class!' right to our faces at E3 but doing it in such a way that it gets people talking about that character for weeks. Everyone is thinking it is Smuggler because she uses blasters and uses cover like a Smuggler. But they're forgetting the way TOR is mirroring classes. The whole fact that a Smuggler uses cover as a central play style means whatever mirrors the Smuggler has play the same way too. If you also look at the smuggler concept art and screenshots their whole style is very casual. They don't wear skin-tight bodysuits like the woman in the screenshot or the twi-lek in the video. That bodysuit is too formal. Too professional.

So here's my bet. I'd place money on this if it was worth it. I am 100% certain that the Sith Spy is not only in the game but according to the timeline video it will be the next announced class. All that leaves then is the Jedi and Sith, which we know of already. And whatever this final Republic class is and its Sith counter-part. Personally, I'm still expecting droids since more and more of your early screenshots released are turning out to be player classes. The Assassin Droid was among them and so was the T3 droid.
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zacharywf

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Agree 100%
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ZionicestSayImNicest

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:49 am

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Masterfully done Taln. :geek:

I'm sold. Seems so obvious now. And the 4th has to be droids. Has to be. So much for the "criminal".
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Pyrofox

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:58 am

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Impressive, most impressive. :ugeek:

I had missed that line "Frustrated by a series of Republic Military victories, Imperial Intelligence adopted new tactics to force an end to the war" and I think it certainly is telling, it confirms that the Empire at this time has an Intelligence division and they are certainly a big player in the EU in later years. I think I would be very happy with a Spy class with the Imperial Intelligence name behind him. Story wise, you have so many ways to go with it. Do you go undercover and weasel up to the guy you want info from? Are you a femme fatal? Or do you just sneak in, put your blaster to the guys head and interrogate him before ending his misery.

I don't think I was thinking of Imp Intel before when you and others mentioned a Spy class but yeah, now I'm starting to like the idea. The screen shot is clearly the same type of uniform and that was breaking into the Jedi academy wasn't it? I'm still a little bit skeptical because the Twi'lek was very underplayed in the cinematic, leading me to believe it was a companion but I guess it could be a little nod to the subtlety of Imperial Intelligence ;)

You know, for the 4th Sith class, I still think Imperial Guard. Why? Because in the EU, there's a fair bit of tension between Intelligence & the military. A Bounty Hunter(Trooper mirror that it is) doesn't have the military attitude to play of that and the Sith clearly wouldn't let themselves be bossed around by Intel. An Imperial Guard though, a pure military class with a great sense of loyalty and protocol, I could see having an interesting, perhaps deadly rivalry with Imperial Intelligence.

A bit like the Romulan Tal'Shiar, you see they are equally feared and respected by Romulan naval officers.
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Durklin

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:05 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Those were a lot of great ideas. Good work taln. I think you have gone down some interesting directions. I think it would be very likely to see a class like this in the game. However, you asked a question in your post,"Know of any other potential class which needs to be stealth? Uses cover? Needs to get out of dangerous situations? Sabotages the enemy's plans to get the advantage? Gathers information from people?" The answer is yes, I do know of a class who fits exactly all of those things. That class is the criminal. I beleive a criminal class would be almost exactly what you have described a spy to be. If your concept of a spy was combined with all of the information that points to a criminal class, I think it would make a lot of sense. I like the fact that you brought up that heading on the timeline, which I had not overlooked ealier. Sith intelligence is adopting NEW tactics. I highly doubt using a spy is a new tactic. I believe that that this "new tactic" that they talk about is using contacts and connections with the criminal underword for information. In the description of the sith empire it says "When the time for vengeance arrived, the Sith began infiltrating star systems in the Outer Rim, sowing seeds of discord and making secret deals with local criminals and warlords." I think they would take the criminal elements from the movies and the TOR story that has been told so far, to make a more flavorful spin on a spy type class.
Last edited by Durklin on Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TalN

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:25 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

The thing is though. A criminal, who is working for Imperial Intelligence. And is wearing a uniform. Is still a Sith Imperial Spy. :)
So you may be right that they recruited people from the criminal underworld but ultimately a spy is still a spy. We also have no seen any evidence of a rough and tough looking criminal from any of the screenshots. Additionally, the concept of espionage and spying is more prevailent in the Starwars films than that of being a criminal and that is the key point here. The concepf of a Spy is iconic only in purpose but not as any specific character. You had spies mentioned in connection with the Death Star, you had Han and Luke infiltrating the Deathstar itself, you had the spy in Mos Eisley who led the Imperial troopers to the Millenium Falcon, you had Leia posing as Boshuu to infiltrate Jabba's palace AND Lando was already there. All in all spying and infiltration is quite common in the films.
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Durklin

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:37 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

The concept of a criminal underworld is iconic as well in the movies. In fact, you actually get to expirience it visually as well. Many of the examples you gave from the movies were not actually spies in essence. The criminal element in the movies is obvious and up front. We may or may not have seen a screen shot of a criminal. Who is to say exactly what a criminal, or a spy for that matter, would look like in this game? Furthermore, I don't remember seeing any screen shots of the smuggler before he was released in that article. Whether or not we have a screen shot of a criminal, we have the introduction of the crime meeting on nar shadda in the web comic. It is true that a criminal who is a spy, is still a spy. But, a criminal who is a spy is still a criminal.
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ZionicestSayImNicest

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Oiiiii, now my head starting to hurt :|

How bout a combination of the two. Imperial Agent. A spy who serves the empire but mixes with criminal and underwold types to gather information and get things done. Loyal to the empire but maybe not above taking a little something for themselves as well. Works for me :D

I've said it before but Xizor is darn near a perfect example of this. A rival to Vader, a capo for the emperor and also the head of black sun which runs the underworld and rivals the hutts.
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MJimiD

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

I yell "Sith spy" and everyone shrugs their shoulders & mumbles "smuggler". TalN yells "Sith spy" and he's the hero of the forums. It's a conspiracy!
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Durklin

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:52 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

to zion:
"How bout a combination of the two. Imperial Agent. A spy who serves the empire but mixes with criminal and underwold types to gather information and get things done. Loyal to the empire but maybe not above taking a little something for themselves as well. Works for me"

This is close to the concept i am leaning toward. The only difference is that I would think this class takes it's roots in the underworld and mixes with the emipirials as a spy or informant.
Last edited by Durklin on Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ZionicestSayImNicest

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

My bad MJimiD but he had the pretty pictures! :lol:

I liked your jedi v. supersaiyan analysis. 8-)
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zacharywf

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:57 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

First off, I'd just like to say I've been going for the Spy AND the Criminal for a while as possible candidates for the spot...along with Imperial Guard. Fact is, we don't know. But, let me throw a monkey wrench into the works that I don't think has been mentioned yet:

What is the Criminal and Spy are two sides of the same class. I don't know what the official title would be, but what happens if your story forks and one way leads to a loyal agent of the Imperial Military and the other leads to a double agent criminal pretending to work for the Empire, but really working against them? If it's done creatively, they could be the SAME CLASS.
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Pyrofox

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:05 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Heh, interesting. Which is the dark and which is the light path? A Loyal servant to a 'corrupt and evil' empire or a double crossing criminal, giving information to the Republic?
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zacharywf

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:17 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Maybe both....maybe neither....I guess it would depend how you did each.
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Nolcro

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:04 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

I was guessing it was going to be a Spy-related class for a long time now. Glad to see it is true :D. Thanks Tal-N.
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Rel

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Great argument Taln, although I have a few thoughts. First, the screenshot that you have provided is of the cover system that BioWare has announced is used by the Republic Smuggler. Also, the Bounty Hunter behaves completely different than the Trooper, why should the Sith mirror for the Smuggler be any different?

However, fantastic catch in the timeline video, and I definitely think you are right that there will be a Sith Intelligence class that uses the cover system.

Just wanted to provide some counter-arguments.
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matster

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:30 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Totally agree Tal-N,

OK the last class

Rep = Droid with limited damage reduction, (force field projection) res, and life sustaining talents
Sith = Assassin droid with vampiric style, undead life giving abilities and buffs

This would help to balance between the sith and G Rep
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TalN

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:47 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Actually the cover system appears to be used by ALL of the classes however the Smuggler is the specialist at it.

According to MMORPG.com
The Smuggler is a Republic ranged damage class that wears light armor, and in order to make up for this, he can take advantage of the environment by using a unique cover system. While cover is intended to be available for most classes, the Smuggler will find areas to take cover in that other classes may not. In addition, taking cover will allow the Smuggler to use special abilities.


And what I mean by a mirroring of the classes, I mean the roles on a team. A Trooper has been defined as the 'highest ranged DPS class for the Republic'. And many of the skills and abilities they have can be compared quite directly to the Bounty Hunter. Both of them have the same role, the ranged DPS class. The Smuggler is a 'crowd control' themed role and therefore the Sith counter-part will also be crowd control themed.
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TalN

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:03 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

If droids are companions only...

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.. then why does this screenie have three player characters and one companion? Why don't the others have companions with them?

Or maybe, it is four player characters.
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zacharywf

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Post Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:09 pm

Re: Imperial Intelligence and the Anti-Smuggler

Or maybe it is two Sith, both with companions.
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